CARL GOTTLOB SCHAECHE.
What we know:
(For sources, see footnotes below. Those marked with an asterisks (*) are not always reliable and still need to be confirmed.)
- Name: Carl Gottlob Schaeche (1)
- Place of Origin: Koiskau, Silesia. (1) Located within the Prussian Empire – now modern Kosiska, Poland.
- Born: 10 September 1794 (2)*
- Marriage: Maria Rosina Vogel. 25th January, 1819, in Grosstinz, Silesia (1)
- Occupation:
- In Silesia: Grenadier in the Kaiser Alexander Grenadier regiment, Prussia, up to at least 1819. (1)
Example of grenadiers in Prussian regiment Kaiser Alexander Grenadiers in 1824. This is NOT a picture of Carl.
- In South Australia: Mason and farmer. (3)
- In Silesia: Grenadier in the Kaiser Alexander Grenadier regiment, Prussia, up to at least 1819. (1)
- Father: Johann Friedrich Schaeche (1)
- Mother: unknown
- Emigration: 1848, aboard the Leontine, to South Australia. (4)*
- Residence in South Australia:
- – on farmland near Tanunda, Hallets Valley (later known as Barossa Valley) (5)*
- – Greenock Creek, Nuriootpa district. (3)
- – Ebenezer (5)
- Death: 22 Aug 1876. Aged 81 years, 11 months, at Ebenezer, SA. (6)
- Children: (coming)
*****
SOURCES:
* Sources marked with asterisks are not always reliable and still need to be confirmed.
- Marriage record for Carl: Kirchenbuch, 1818-1846 Evangelische Kirche Groß Tinz, available in microfilm from Family Search Centres (LDS). Also mentioned in his naturalisation papers, 1856.
- * Ancestry File with LDS – a family tree uploaded to the Family Search site. Details not as yet confirmed. SA Death index indicated he was born in Sept 1794 (see note 6).
- Naturalisation records; SA Gov’t Gazette 17/7/1856; SA Parliamentary Papers, 1872; National Archives A729v4, A821,
- * Biographical Index ofSouth Aust (BISA) – a source that is unfortunately not6 always reliable.
- * Residence: from other researchers, not confirmed as yet
- South Australian Death 1842-1916, Kap S Book 75, page 278. Accessed From Family Community Trees, viewed 17 April 2012.
PHOTOS:
1 – Carl Gottlob Schache and wife Maria Rosina Vogel. Photo received 3 April 2013, courtesy of descendant N.Linton.
2 – Image of Grenadier in Prussian regiment via Wikipedia, viewed 4 April 2013. This is a German entry but can be translated via Google (for what it’s worth).
*****
updated: 4 April 2013
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Just came across your site and I would like to make contact. I have been researching my Schache ancestors for many years and have a great deal of information. I hate to disappoint you but the photos you have as Carl Gottlob Schache and his nee Vogel are in fact the photos
of their son also called Carl Gottlob Schache and his wife Maria Elisabeth Schubert (my great-great-grandparents). I can fill you in on all the children of the original Schache family.
Thanks for the info on the photo John. I have now removed that page with the photo
I would be happy to hear more from you, John, and any info on the Schaches you would like to share. I can add links to any webpages you may have.
Eirene
Hello John,
Are you still active on the net with regard to Family Research?
I called to see you some good many years ago when you lived somewhere near Montrose I think?
You had some huge old Family Bibles on your coffee table and as it turned out you related to me that they actually belonged to members of my family, they were written in the German language.
I would love to hear from you again.
I have resumed my Maiden Name now as I am on my own these past three years.
I was Alice Marie Meredith then.
Blessings to you and family,
Marie.
Hello John, I am a descendant of the Schache family on my fathers mothers side – my paternal grandmother (she was Binrus Ruby Schache, her parents were Andreas Heinrich Benjamin Schache and Caroline Emma Selle). I would be so grateful if you could share some of your research with me. My name is Katherine Reilly (nee Felmingham), daughter of David Felmingham son of Binrus Ruby Schache (and Percival Felmingham).
This is John Schubert, again. I am sorry that I have not been responding to messages on this site – I have been focussed on other research and then more recently I have been overseas and occupied with family matters. I am very happy to communicate with all Schache descendants and share my research which has been underway for the best part of 50 years (you would think I would have it finished by now)! It is good to make contact, Marie and Kathy, and my email address is schubertj@bigpond.com. I would like to think a Schache history could be published one day, but it is a huge family, and would need a combined, co-ordinated effort for this to happen.
I have researched most branches of the Schache family in varying degrees, including that of Johann Gottlieb Schache (the second child of Carl Gottlob Schache and Maria Rosina nee Vogel). Johann Gottlieb was the ancestor of Marie and Kathy, and had 21 children by two wives (the most prolific branch). Andreas Heinrich Benjamin Schache was Johann Gottlieb’s sixth child by his first wife. I descend from Carl Gottlob Schache junior, the third child of Carl Gottlob and Maria Rosina Schache.
A couple of comments on other points discussed recently on this Carrick site:
~ My understanding of the spelling of the Schache name is that the original spelling was “Schache” with an umlaut (two “dots”) over the “a”. This can also be written (especially in modern German) as “Schaeche”; in Australia most branches eventually dropped the umlaut and just spelled it “Schache”; others added the “e”.
~ The Schaches migrated to Australia long before the modern state of Germany came into existence. They came from the province of Silesia in Prussia (the emperors of which became the kaisers of the united Germany). Prussia was the most powerful and dominant of the many German-speaking states in Europe which united to form Germany in the 1870’s. Consequently our ancestors were technically Prussian, not German. Since the Second World War, this area is now part of Poland.
~ Concerning the Hetzels, I believe that Maria Rosina Hetzel nee Schache migrated to Australia with her parents and siblings on the “Leontine” in 1848, but I have never found her name on any Leontine passenger list. Has anyone else? Similarly, Johann Gottlieb’s name doesn’t appear on any “Leontine” list, and I have been told he came earlier, before the rest of the family, but have no proof of this to date.
Joh
Thanks for your quick response John. It does sound like you must have a lot of information. I love the idea of several Schaeche reseachers working together to produce a book. I am happy for you to use this site to make any contact with other researchers. I will email you with contact details of other researchers, although most of them have already commented on this site, so you can probably find them from here.
Do you have a copy of the Hetzel family book written in 1977 by Richard and Wendy Hetzel?
As for when Maria Rosina Schaeche came out, I know the shipping records do not record all the children. I have not looked into that in detail. Will see what I have. (It seems almost every girl was called ‘Maria Rosina’, LOL).
Thanks John, for the comments on other info in this site, nice to have some discussion on these issues. I have also made some blog posts on those topics in the past: https://mycarrickfamilyhistory.wordpress.com/category/schaeche/
Yes, I guess we should say that the Schaeches came from Prussia, although I am always reluctant to, since Prussia took it over (admittedly taking it off Austria). I see it as a separate state that was never allowed its autonomy. But that is, of course, just my personal view. 🙂
However, in the naturalisation certificate of Carl Gottlob Schaeche it says he came from “Silesia in Prussia in German” which seems odd in view of this issue. I am assuming they are referring to the general geographical area of ‘Germany’. I think that the term ‘Germany’ was used as a regional term before the actual nation-state of Germany came about, if my reading of medieval history is correct (which it may not be, I haven’t actually checked any sources). I don’t know if it is Carl who said this or the official who was writing out the certificate. Doesn’t really matter, I guess, as it reflects the view at the time, of either the Silesians or the British colonial bureaucrats. I can’t actually find a date on the certificate, but it says he had been in the colony for 8 years, so that would make it 1856, well before the unification of Germany (the first one, that is, not the post Berlin Wall one). I must do a blog post on this one.
My mother, who was a third generation Australian born Siesian, always said her family were German, not sure if she said they came from Germany. But of course she could well have been speaking in 20th century terms.
The name ‘Schaeche’ with the umlaut (rendered with the ‘e’ in English) I have heard is quite a rare name in German speaking lands. I have had contact with someone connected to the family in Switzerland who has said this (I will send you his email address, John). I also did some research into names in 19th century Germany (whatever it was called [grin]) and those spelt with the umlaut were only from one region (where our family came from). The name without the umlaut in German is much more common, which seems to me to indicate that the name spelt Schache in German (as opposed to the English changes that have occurred in Australia and maybe where else) is not connected to the name Schaeche. I don’t actually know, though, it could be the same thing has occurred in German lands too, of course. I have more info on this and must prepare and post info on it. I did post a blog piece on it. https://mycarrickfamilyhistory.wordpress.com/2014/08/08/schaeche-is-a-rare-german-name/
Sorry folks, I have no doubt now confused you all, due to poor editing. When I said; “However, in the naturalisation certificate of Carl Gottlob Schaeche it says he came from ‘Silesia in Prussia in German’,”, I meant that the certificate said he came from; “Silesia in Prussia in GERMANY”, not in German. Tsk tsk. Sorry folks.
My mother was Binrus Ruby Schache daughter of Andreas Heinrich Benjamin and Caroline Emma nee Selle. My mother spoke of the ship Leotine. She died in 1981.
If anyone has photos of their wedding or other I would be so pleased to be able to see them.
I never knew my Grandparents, and what I can understand there was mush hardship that the went through due to the Great Depression, War losing their son Walter Herbert who died when HMAS Sydney was sunk in 1942.
Thank you
Alice.
Aunty Marie, its your neice Kathy!
I can’t believe I’ve stumbled across you while researching our family history. I hope you are well, and I would so love to hear from you … I have happy memories of time spent with you as a child 🙂
Kathy xx
(Apologies to everyone else for using this site to reconnect with my aunt … it is very accidental!)
Not a problem, Kathy, I am very happy that this site is providing a chance for members of the family to re-connect. That is one of the great benefits of family history. 🙂
Hello Marie, happy to make contact again and learn what you have discovered in the meantime. Please send me your email address, John
Hello, Eirene, yes I have the Hetzel book which I got from Wendy Hetzel years ago. I learned from my great-aunts 50 years ago that one of the original Schaches was a Mrs Hetzel. I remember hearing Basil Hetzel speaking on the ABC and made contact with him at the CSIRO, and then made contact with Wendy. Carl Hetzel was involved with the establishment of the Tanunda Krankenverein (health society) with my great-grandfather, Carl August Schubert (whose mother-in-law, by the way, was Pastor Kavel’s sister). Many of my ancestors, including the Kavels, came out on the “Prince George” in 1838. I am actually writing a paper on the Kavels at the moment.
My copy of Carl Gottlob Schache’s naturalization certificate (dated Adelaide, 2 June, 1856) lists his birth place as Koiskau, near Liegnitz, Silesia, Prussia. “Germany” wasn’t used as the name of a state before the unification of most European German-speaking countries in 1871. The naturalization of Schache’s namesake son (December 1865) lists his birthplace as Grosstinz, Province of Silesia, Prussia. Prussia is the correct place of birth of these people before 1871, although later (Australian) printed references to people born in Prussia often referred to them as “Germans” and as having been born in “Germany”.
Oh, that’s interesting. Mine, which is handwritten, mentions Germany. Not sure of course if Carl included that or the bureaucrat writing it out did. I will send you a copy via email, see what you think.